Allow me to repeat an anecdote about the study of economics. It's fairly depressing. Someone I know was taking a course in economics. One of the early seminars focused on the issue of rape looked at in terms of economics. Economically analysed, was the idea of eliminating rape, or reducing it, viable? There were all kinds of questions about how often rape is reported, how often a conviction is made and so on. After all the economical analysis was covered, the conclusion of the seminar was that it was not economically viable to do anything about the issue of rape.
Next question.
Which would mean I take it that it would not be reducible by chucking money at it in a conscious awareness campaign?Eliminating rape … hahaha, what a joke.But the applying of a little pressure to tip the balance away from some girls and women being violated (in a fiscal year), surely that would be worth it. I mean, I’ve read that it cost 2.9 million pounds for fire services in Scotland alone on bonfire night this year. Who decided that was fiscally viable?And just how many rapes exactly do you get for a million pounds these days?Yes, my friend, that is depressing. Shame, shame, shame, eh? :spock: sorry I don’t have a Pound symbol
I question that conclusion. I bet with the right data a good argument could be made for the economic benefit of lessening rape. There are many other costs besides just legal. Organizations spend a lot of money dealing with rape casesa and the attempt to prevent them. Those who are raped spend much money and time psychologically and medically dealing with the aftereffects of rape. Many of those raped probably have difficulty being as “productive” of citizens as they could be.The conclusion seems to imply lessening rape would be difficult or near impossible. But I think I may have seen data about sexual assaults decreasing with the increasing availability of porn. I’d bet that sexual assaults decrease when prostitution is legalized because in countries where drugs are legalized there use goes down.If enough people wanted to lessen rape, there are many things that could be done on a public level. The highest economic cost would be convincing people to care enough to do anything about it.
Which would mean I take it that it would not be reducible by chucking money at it in a conscious awareness campaign?Well, I think other things than awareness campaigns were discussed, but it wasn’t me – thankfullly – who was at the seminar. I mean, I’ve read that it cost 2.9 million pounds for fire services in Scotland alone on bonfire night this year. Who decided that was fiscally viable?Well, this is the thing. There are obviously priorities in economics based upon such great guiding values as greed, convenience, apathy and so on.I question that conclusion. I bet with the right data a good argument could be made for the economic benefit of lessening rape.I don’t imagine that economists are good at thinking laterally when it comes to solving social problems – only when it comes to increasing their personal wealth.The conclusion seems to imply lessening rape would be difficult or near impossible. But I think I may have seen data about sexual assaults decreasing with the increasing availability of porn. I’d bet that sexual assaults decrease when prostitution is legalized because in countries where drugs are legalized there use goes down.I wonder, then, if the Internet has helped decrease instances of rape? I mean, I don’t suppose it’s quite that simple, but people no longer have to ask sheepishly for an art magazine from the top shelf in a newsagents. Or ask artfully for a sheep magazine, for that matter. I think narcotics and prostitution should be legalised, but I don’t think that rape is all about sexual frustration. I mean, I think that must be an undeniable element to it, but from what I understand, from vague memories of psychiatric reports, the motivation for rape is more that of anger than it is desire. It’s an act of violence. It seems to be a power thing more than anything. Someone wants to be more powerful than someone else.I question that conclusion. I bet with the right data a good argument could be made for the economic benefit of lessening rape. Well, what the anecdote illustrates is not that rape is an insoluble problem, but the kind of attitudes that exist in the field of economics. It reminds me of that bit in Fight Club where the guy is explaining that there is a design flaw in the car sold by the company he works for that means X amount of drivers will end up fused to their melting steering wheel in a crash, but they don’t bother to correct the flaw, because the money they will lose through insurance claims or being sued or whatever is calculated to be less than the money they will lose through correcting the flaw. I am sure that this is a realistic example. This is the world that some people live in. You know, I have friends who, shall we say, work with money, and I hear very, very depressing reports about the whole thing. Not everyone who works in that world – of course – is scum, but the values by which they are expected to work are vile.
Originally posted by quentinscrisp:valuesYes, these would be at the root of the matter ….
Originally posted by quentinscrisp:Or ask artfully for a sheep magazine, for that matter. You dag! 😆
“I think narcotics and prostitution should be legalised, but I don’t think that rape is all about sexual frustration.”I don’t think rape is only about sexual frustration, but I do think it’s a major part. I would generalize it further and say it’s about frustration in general. Psychologically and biologically humans aren’t designed to live in the modern industrialized world.Take sex and marriage. I’ve read that hunter-gathereres sexually matured around age 18 and that is when they married. An agricultural diet caused humans to sexually mature a bit ealier and various factors present today (better nutrition, hormones in food, pseudo-estrogens from plastic, psycho-pharmaceuticals, etc.) have caused humans to sexually mature even earlier. So, we have kids who sexually mature when they’re still in early grade school. And people now, because of social and economic factors, don’t get married until their late 20s and early 30s. On top of this, there are lage sectors of society telling kids that sex is evil, that premarital sex is a sin. Is sexual frustration a surprising result?”Well, what the anecdote illustrates is not that rape is an insoluble problem, but the kind of attitudes that exist in the field of economics.”Yeah, I understand. This also comes up with environmentalism. There is a real economic benefit to not destroying the environment, but it’s not a benefit that is immediate nor is it a benefit that a single company gain over other companies. Essentially, the individual person can always gain benefit by taking away from others and society can always gain benefit by borrowing from future generations.A major tenet of fiscal conservatism is that if you get government out of business enlightened selfishness will ultimately lead to a moral outcome. But sadly there is no evidence for this being true, but it doesn’t stop people advocating it for reasons of personal gain.
Originally posted by quentinscrisp:the motivation for rape is more that of anger than it is desire. It’s an act of violence.A domination thing? Predatory behaviour? It’s not always men raping women, HERE a woman is on trial for raping 10 men. And she had to go to quite a lot of trouble getting them back to her place (not all at once, you understand), drugging them and tying the appendage to keep it upright. Only one fellow complaining that he’d rather have been awake throughout (so the story goes). And it’s of course not at all funny.Then there are the two men said to be caught on a night vision camera in Iraq raping a goat, the poor animal. It’s something I’m really offended about on the goat’s behalf. But apparently opportunism and just wanting very very casual sex come into it or maybe these guys just couldn’t get a girlfriend. But the desire seems very one-sided with some people not even wanting to converse during the act. While the objectification of another person to the same extent wouldn’t be possible with even your everyday, casual sex. Some conversation being likely to occur at some point even if it is very rudimentary.And you would say if they’re uninterested in having a participating partner, there surely are better ways around the problem. So is this playing out a fantasy? Finally, I read that “10% of rape victims are men though they rarely report the crime”; and if that’s the case one might question how they got that figure, but anyway … this is men raping men.Would men consider this the ultimate insult?
Take sex and marriage. I’ve read that hunter-gathereres sexually matured around age 18 and that is when they married. An agricultural diet caused humans to sexually mature a bit ealier and various factors present today (better nutrition, hormones in food, pseudo-estrogens from plastic, psycho-pharmaceuticals, etc.) have caused humans to sexually mature even earlier. So, we have kids who sexually mature when they’re still in early grade school. And people now, because of social and economic factors, don’t get married until their late 20s and early 30s. On top of this, there are lage sectors of society telling kids that sex is evil, that premarital sex is a sin. Is sexual frustration a surprising result?I read, many years ago, a novel called Nude Men that dealt with the whole sexual frustration thing – how long people are expected to abstain even after reaching physical maturity. In some ways, though, I imagine modern society must provide more safety valves than were previously available. Contraception comes to mind.It’s not always men raping women, HERE a woman is on trial for raping 10 men. And she had to go to quite a lot of trouble getting them back to her place (not all at once, you understand), drugging them and tying the appendage to keep it upright. Only one fellow complaining that he’d rather have been awake throughout (so the story goes). And it’s of course not at all funny.It does, indeed, happen, as does female-on-male domestic violence. If it’s under-reported (I think it really must be), then that will be partly because people have difficulty taking the idea seriously – something which says a lot about the differences between men and women, and the perceived differences. There’s the line about every man being a potential rapist. Male sexuality is seen as aggressive by definition. I remember the comedian Dave Allen doing a routine something like this: “If I decided to undress and sunbathe naked in my garden – in my own garden – and my neighbour looks over the fence, she can have me arrested. If she decides to do the same thing, and sunbathe naked in her garden, and I look over the fence… she can still have me arrested.” I suppose I understand why things are this way – people acknowledge the inequalities of nature in this area. Still, it doesn’t really seem fair. I suppose many things in life aren’t.
Oh, gender issues! That is a can of worms… and what if we spill the can of worms!?! Oh my, the worms are loose! Oh God, the worms loose… what are we to do!?! :)I want to read a Ligotti story about gender and worms… and I want it now. Where is Ligotti when you need him?
Originally posted by quentinscrisp:It does, indeed, happen, as does female-on-male domestic violence. If it’s under-reported (I think it really must be), then that will be partly because people have difficulty taking the idea seriouslyI think that could be true but, partly, the reason for men under-reporting their being violated by women might be their trying to save themselves embarrassment. Which I feel sure is the case with many women too, the act alone is humiliating enough but to openly talk about it would be to risk public humilation. At one time a woman’s morality or mental standing was often put under question if she claimed rape, the victim being expected to have fought back strenuously to avoid it, showing some signs of abuse. It was only in the ’60s ’70s that the laws changed to identify the culprit as the rapist.Men may need to be more forthcoming about attacks by women to introduce a better balance in the law.